Ben Price interview: replay or read the summary now

Introduction

This episode of the Sound Without Sight podcast features an interview with Ben Price. Ben is a prominent advocate for accessibility in the music industry and an established Artist Manager. His company, Harbourside Management, focuses on working with disabled artists. Ben contributes to the British Phonographic Industry’s Equality, Diversity and Intersectional work for its members, award shows, events and The BRIT Trust. He is also on the board of Trustees at Attitude is Everything, a charity connecting disabled people with music and live event industries to improve accessibility.

Ben shares his thoughts on a range of topics, including:

• How he adapted his career in response his own journey with sight loss.
• The role of an Artist Manager, and what he looks for in aspiring artists to work with.
• Tips for disclosing disability within the music industry.

This interview was recorded live, as part of the Sound Without Sight Monthly Meet-up Session for February 2024, featuring questions submitted by our community. 

This article includes links to listen to the podcast, a summary, and the full transcript. 

Listen to podcast

Summary

Ben’s career trajectory

Ben recounts his journey into the music industry, which started with a career in radio journalism. He transitioned into artist management after realising that his visual impairment, caused by retinitis pigmentosa, made certain roles in live music production increasingly challenging. This personal experience has shaped his commitment to advocating for accessibility and inclusivity within the music industry.

The importance of accessibility

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around the concept of accessibility in the music industry. Ben emphasises that making access requests should be normalised, allowing artists and industry professionals to communicate their needs without guilt or fear of judgment. He notes that many individuals feel hesitant to disclose their access requirements due to negative past experiences, which highlights the need for a cultural shift in how accessibility is perceived.

Ben advocates for the use of access riders—documents that outline specific access needs—before events or studio sessions. He believes that this practice can help create a more inclusive environment by ensuring that everyone involved is aware of and prepared to meet these needs. He stresses that access requests are reasonable and should be treated as a standard part of planning in the industry.

Disclosure of disabilities

Ben shares his own experiences with disclosing his disability, noting that it is a deeply personal choice. He encourages individuals to feel confident in discussing their access needs with employers and collaborators, emphasizing that they are entitled to reasonable adjustments under equality laws. He suggests that open and honest dialogue can lead to positive outcomes and better working relationships.

Artist management insights

The role of an artist manager is multifaceted, involving administrative tasks, protecting intellectual property, and ensuring the well-being of the artists they represent. Ben explains that a manager’s job often includes handling contracts, budgeting, and logistical arrangements for tours and recordings. He highlights the importance of building genuine relationships within the industry, as cold emails are often less effective in establishing connections.

Ben also discusses the qualities he looks for in aspiring artists, emphasising the need for uniqueness and marketability in their music. He advises artists to focus on their narrative and how they present themselves, as this can significantly impact their chances of being noticed by managers and industry professionals.

Challenges and opportunities for disabled artists

Throughout the conversation, Ben acknowledges the challenges faced by disabled artists in the music industry, including access barriers and the stigma surrounding disabilities. However, he also expresses optimism about the increasing awareness and acceptance of disability within the industry. He notes that more opportunities are emerging for disabled artists, and he encourages them to remain resilient and persistent in pursuing their passions.

Ben highlights various initiatives aimed at supporting disabled musicians, such as the Disability Empowerment Programme, which provides funding and resources for disabled artists to release music and gain industry experience. He also mentions organizations like Attitude Is Everything, which work to improve access and representation for disabled individuals in the music sector.

The role of advocacy

Ben’s advocacy work extends beyond artist management; he is involved with organisations that aim to improve accessibility and representation in the music industry. He serves as a trustee for Attitude Is Everything and advises the BRIT Awards on disability policies. His efforts focus on creating a more inclusive environment for disabled artists and ensuring that their voices are heard.

He discusses the importance of positive disclosure stories, which can inspire others to share their experiences and advocate for their needs. Ben believes that sharing both positive and negative experiences can help foster a better understanding of the challenges faced by disabled individuals in the industry.

Networking and community building

Networking is a crucial aspect of building a successful career in the music industry, but Ben acknowledges that it can be particularly challenging for disabled individuals. He encourages aspiring artists to seek out connections and build relationships rather than relying solely on cold outreach. He suggests that artists should research potential managers and tailor their approaches to demonstrate genuine interest and fit.

Ben also emphasizes the importance of community within the disabled artist space. He expresses his commitment to supporting and mentoring disabled musicians, offering his time for discussions and advice. He believes that fostering a sense of community can help break down barriers and create more opportunities for collaboration and growth.

Conclusion

In conclusion, the interview provides valuable insights into the intersection of disability and the music industry. Ben’s personal experiences and professional journey highlight the importance of accessibility, open communication, and advocacy for disabled artists. He encourages individuals to embrace their unique stories and to seek out opportunities for collaboration and support within the industry.

The conversation underscores the ongoing efforts to create a more inclusive music landscape, where disabled artists can thrive and contribute their talents without facing unnecessary barriers. Ben’s work serves as an inspiration for aspiring musicians and industry professionals alike, demonstrating that change is possible through resilience, advocacy, and community engagement.

Full transcript

Please note this transcript was automatically generated, and may contain erroers. 

Sound Without Sight, connect, collaborate and create.

Hello and welcome to the Sound Without Sight podcast.

In this episode, we share the recording from one of our first ever monthly meetup sessions in which we welcomed Ben Price as the headline guest.

Ben is a prominent advocate for accessibility in the music industry and an established artist manager.

His company, Harbourside Management, focuses on working with disabled artists.

Ben shares his thoughts on a range of topics, including how he adapted his career in response to his own journey with sight loss, the role of an artist manager, and what he looks for in aspiring artists to work with, and tips for disclosing disability within the music industry.

We hope you enjoy.

So, Ben, thank you so much for taking the time to join us this evening.

No, thank you for inviting me.

It’s really nice to be here.

And yeah, I’m very honored to have been asked to come.

So, just to start on the questions, I was wondering if you could give us a bit of an overview of your musical journey so far, how you got into music originally and how you became an artist manager.

So, it goes back a fair bit.

And my first career was as a radio journalist and presenter.

That’s what I came out of university doing 20 years ago, not quite 20 years or so, but yeah, about 20 years ago.

So, I was working in radio.

I started to present and always loved music.

So, I always had like special features on my show featuring local musicians in the area that I was working in, which was like rural Derbyshire.

So, as you can imagine, there’s a few and far between, but still we were promoting some local artists across the county.

And then through that, I kind of got asked to go and work in A&R through some of the kind of artists that I began to promote in the local area.

So, I was asked to be a judge in a music competition, which is quite a large national music competition at the time.

And I went and became a judge on that.

And then suddenly I was offered a full-time job.

So, it was kind of a stark choice for me.

Do I stick with radio where I’ve trained and wanted to work in my entire sort of, you know, teenage years and upwards, or do I take that chance and go and work in music, which is my real passion?

And, you know, I took that kind of leap of faith and started working in A&R to sort of cut the story short a little bit.

And one of the artists I was working with, who happened to be my housemate, we lived in a flat in Sheffield.

And my housemate that year, I kind of brought them to this new company that I was working with, but then they got scouted to be part of the X factor of all shows.

So they went and did that and got immediately signed to a major record label and said, do you want to become my tour manager?

So I didn’t even know what a tour manager was then, but it just sounded like an exciting opportunity to tour the world with one of your best mates.

You’ve got to say yes to these things, right?

Is this a job?

Are you paying me to do this?

So I felt like this was a bit too good to be true.

And after working with that artist solidly for a year, maybe 18 months, when they went into writing for their next album and stopped touring, I had to find other people to work with.

And luckily, I just got client after client after client.

There’s a bit of a domino effect with it all.

So suddenly, I was a professional tour manager, touring here, there and everywhere across Europe and occasionally outside, across the rest of the world.

And things were just great.

I was really enjoying working in music and working in live touring.

But then I suppose it kind of pivots into my own health and my own eye condition.

I kind of learned quite quickly that I had a condition called retinitis pigmentosa, which is genetic and is something that I always know my grandfather had, but it had never crossed my mind that I might have it, because as far as I was aware at that time, my mum didn’t inherit it since it turns out that she did.

So it makes a lot more sense.

But yeah, I quickly obviously noticed that my night vision was going, which I can imagine, you know, we’ve all worked in or been in at least concert halls.

They are very dark backstage.

They are even darker.

Trust me.

So it quickly became a problem.

And that’s where I kind of realized, you know, via a long period of non-disclosure, which I’m sure we’ll talk about in a bit more detail, that I needed to kind of pivot more into sort of management than working behind a desk.

That’s kind of the long and the short of it.

I started managing artists kind of on the side alongside my tour management during those years of kind of denial and non-disclosure.

But I only really became a full-time artist management during the pandemic, and that was probably because there were no gigs anyway.

So I kind of was forced, my hand was forced a little bit in that regard.

So, yeah, I guess I’ve been a full-time artist manager for four years now, but I’ve always been kind of even when I was touring, I was I was managing artists alongside that.

And yeah, sort of started to turn towards this direction quite early.

Yeah.

So I think we’ll delve into all of those kind of stages and topics individually in a little bit.

But as another little overview, maybe you could give us a little bit more about the advocacy work we are involved with.

Sure.

Yeah.

So I am a trustee at Attitudes of Everything, a charity that I’m sure a lot of you will know works on improving access in the music industry for those who work in it and for those for audience members as well.

It’s a wonderful charity.

Its work is so wide and it’s a great charity to work with.

Alongside that, I advise the Brit Awards and the BPI in general on their policies around disability, both for their award shows, for the Brit’s Trust.

And yeah, so we have monthly meetings and talk about how we can make those events much more accessible for everybody as well.

Not just accessible, but have a greater representation of disabled people, which is obviously a really big issue in the music industry at the moment.

And if anyone watched the Brits a month ago, well, two weeks ago, I guess it was, you know, it was evident to me that there’s still a lot more work to do, which maybe I can touch on during this at some point.

But yeah, so a couple of main strands of advocacy.

But then alongside actually managing artists, I run a number of programmes through funding.

So I’ve done projects through youth music before, one or two years ago called the Disability Empowerment Programme, which gave funding for somebody to come on board and release an EP released by Virgin Music and have the whole sort of experience of working with a management company, making a music video and all the different marketing and PR campaigns that came with that.

So that was an interesting one.

And I ran a DYCP Arts Council, Developing New Creative Practice funding project a couple of years before that, which was more about establishing the barriers that disabled people face in the music industry, and those results managed to go far and wide and really helped inform everything else I’ve done.

So yeah, I’m always thinking about advocacy alongside my management work and not just working with two or three people specifically in terms of management, but always thinking about how I can sort of support the community in a wider sense as well.

Yeah, it’s really, really positive.

And I think, yeah, to end my section of questions on a really positive note, I guess across all of those strands of work that you’ve been involved with, what’s one achievement that you’re, I guess, super proud of?

Hmm, that’s a really tough question.

One specific thing is difficult.

I think in my early years of management, you know, I worked with an artist.

We had like a number 12 record in official charts, which felt quite big.

I think since I’ve kind of turned my attentions more towards working in disabled representations, I think managing to get an artist on a Rolls-Royce commercial felt really, really big.

And having an artist play at the Super Bowl and at the closing ceremonies, I think they sort of stand out as moments where you kind of think, you know, you’ve kind of helped make a bit of a difference there.

And then I think just generally setting up Harbourside and uniting disabled artists and supporting the cause more generally, I’m really proud of that.

And, you know, I’m not never sure there’s really one thing I’m specifically proud of, but I guess that overall, I suppose I’m quite proud of everything I’ve done.

I always feel like I’ve done everything well and being very focused and driven whatever I’ve done.

You know, I never give anything less than 100%.

So, yeah, I think just in general, there’s still, you know, I hope if you ask me that question in five years’ time, I’ll have a new answer.

But yeah, I’m driving for more and trying to do more.

Absolutely.

So, yeah, on the topic of artist management, I’m going to hand over to Zenny now to ask some more about that.

Yeah, sure.

So the first question is, what does an artist manager do?

So, you know, like, for example, day-to-day kind of activities in your role with supporting artists?

Yeah.

Emails, I mean, it does feel like that some days.

There’s obviously a lot of admin involved in managing an artist’s career, and that is quite time-consuming in terms of, if you ask me what a day-to-day, well, a typical day looks like, it will always start with a good two to three hours of emails, I think, especially for me, because a lot of my artists work in the US, and a lot of my clients’ work is in the US.

So if I start working at 6pm in an evening here, I’m generally waking up to kind of a whole days of US emails from various so it can be quite a sort of catch up for me to put up with that.

But I think in general, it’s more about kind of obviously thinking about an artist’s activities.

Have they got live shows coming up that you need to arrange?

Are you trying to get them more live shows?

Are you about to release music and you’re dealing with the mixing and the mastering and helping to get all the assets together for the release?

Are you thinking about publishing and all the nitty-gritty bits of metadata that you need to do, file before you release any music and to make sure everything’s all good?

A lot of the manager’s job is about protecting the artist’s intellectual property, to make sure copyrights are up to speed and everything that we’re working on is legally sound.

And sometimes it’s to do with working with lawyers and checking contracts for gigs and creative collaborations.

Sometimes it’ll be more logistical and booking their travel and booking their hotels and budgeting, a lot of budgeting, a lot of spreadsheets, a lot of Excel documents, a lot of phone calls, a lot of dealing with gigging inquiries, which are almost always too ambitious on the booker side.

Yeah, you find yourself on Zoom a lot these days, I think, since the pandemic, and that’s the same for everybody, but it’s very easy to find yourself booked into a number of meetings.

And yeah, it can be quite varied, but it is relatively more admin-based these days than I’m sure it used to be, because everything can be done on a computer, and as well as liaising with your artists, I think that’s obviously another main thing.

Artists are typically communicators, they love to hear from you, they love to ask you questions at the drop of a hat, and expect an answer within a minute.

So yeah, a typical day can be very much jumping from one thing to another, getting distracted quite easily, and just trying to help make the wheels spin, really, for that artist to make sure that they’ve got enough income coming in to cover themselves, that therefore pays you, ultimately.

And just out of curiosity, you mentioned obviously clients and artists and stuff like that.

So how does that work?

Do you have to approach the clients with the artists, or do the clients approach you?

Or like, and how do you find those clients?

Good question.

It varies hugely for me, and I’m sure for other managers as well.

The thing about the three main artists on my roster right now, one, I used to tour manage and became managing casually, which became much more serious, and that’s been eight years now.

So that was kind of a relationship that I knew, that we both knew and that grew.

Another artist approached me, but I was familiar with them.

We’d done panels together.

We’d spoken about their music before.

And another one came from a recommendation from another manager, which is always good because you sort of feel like that person’s making the right contacts.

And if an artist manager friend recommends them to you, you know, that that’s a good seal of approval in a sense.

It can vary a lot.

I get a lot of e-mails in a week asking for me to manage them.

They’re always cold.

You know, people I’ve not met before.

It’s very, very unlikely that from a cold e-mail sort of introduction that somebody will manage you.

To manage someone requires a lot of commitment.

You know, you’re talking to manage somebody properly.

You’re dedicating 15 to 20 hours a week on that person.

If you’re doing it properly and, you know, naturally a manager will only earn 20% of whatever you’re earning.

So unless you’re already at a level where you are commissioning, you know, a couple of thousand pounds a month from gigs and other opportunities, it’s unlikely, unless a manager sees a real long term project in you, that they’ll jump on board straight away.

So it’s always best to try and make connections and makes people see.

And it’s really hard to get a sense of somebody even though you can send music links.

It’s like really hard to like understand somebody from an email, even if the music’s good, like you don’t get the same sense.

If you’ve already met somebody and you happen to be a networking event and you meet an artist, and then you really bond and you get on and then they send you music, it does make a lot more sense and it fits in a lot more.

So it really, really varies.

But I would say that cold calling managers is not always a root success.

I think in general, you’re quite lucky if you get replies.

I especially working in the sector, I work and always make sure I reply, as long as it’s kind of directly addressed to me.

You get a lot of copy and paste kind of demos that don’t even sort of put your name on that.

Even though my email address is Benat, you still get quite a few sort of deacers and things like that, and you can kind of guess for yourself that it’s gone to hundreds of people.

But in general, I try and reply, but it’s a really busy industry, so it’s not always the best route.

But make contacts, network where you can, and I say that with the caveat of knowing networking is not always the most accessible way in our business, in our culture, but again, maybe something we talk about, but yeah, there are ways of approaching managers that I think are better than just cold calling.

And that kind of actually leads on to the second question that we have, which is kind of like, what are the main qualities you look for in a potential artist to manage?

And do you have any tips on how aspiring artists should invest their time to put themselves in a good position to be picked up?

So I know you said about cold emails not being probably the best way, but like what stands out to you?

Like if you saw an email from an artist, for example, or like a LinkedIn message or whatever, what would kind of stand out to you and be like, oh, you know, this person’s interesting?

Yeah, I guess it’s their story and it’s their, I mean, it is their music.

And again, I’ll say this, I’ll kind of flip the question slightly and say, you know, it’s not necessarily about how you approach somebody and the content.

I think speaking purely about what I would look for in a music demo, having already known an artist, is really the idea that it’s unique in some way.

It doesn’t have to be off the wall, unique, but it has to have some, has to be ultimately marketable to some capacity, right?

I’m not saying it has to be pop music by any stretch of the imagination, but it has to have an identity that’s different to some other things you’ve heard.

Even if it’s within the constraints of a genre, I think it has to have that USP, essentially, and whether that is in an artist’s vocal, which is very hard to find.

There’s a million good singers in the world.

You can have a classically good voice, for example, but if it sounds like another million people, then what is going to make you stand out against those a million other people to get that record label deal or whatever, whatever you’re striving to do?

So it can be a tone in a vocal, it can be a playing style, it can be a production style, it can be just something that sounds like, oh, it sounds similar to some things I’ve heard before, but there’s just something edgy or different about it.

So I think musically, that’s what I would look for.

I think in terms of approaching managers and to answer your question more directly, I suppose, a better way of approaching managers is try and get an introduction via somebody you know, if you can.

It adds a lot of weight, as I say, if you’ve got that seal of approval of somebody else.

If you don’t know that person, at least show an interest in the email and what they’re doing.

Do a bit of research, show that you feel that you would fit into that roster.

Say, I love what you did on that project or whatever.

To me, if I read that, I think you’ve taken the time to look into me.

I will invest the same time into you.

So address somebody by name is always important.

I think that goes beyond approaching music managers.

I think if you’re applying for jobs, for example, or doing whatever, you always want to try and find out who you’re speaking to and address them properly.

You know, you give that little bit of respect and you ideally get the same respect back.

So, yeah, I think just do your research, try and get intros when you can.

Think about what makes your music specific to that manager as well.

If that manager releases acid house music and you’re, you know, you’re orchestral or whatever, it’s probably not the right match as well.

So think about the genre and everything else and make sure it’s a good fit.

I’d say approach less managers, put more specific ones and do it with quality.

That makes sense.

And then third question that was written here.

So obviously, I know you’re, well, we know that you’re a trustee for Attitudes, everything, and obviously that you support disabled artists.

What would be your tips for other managers to be more inclusive in their approaches?

Well, I decided that when I was going to be a manager, that I would work specifically in disability arts or with disabled artists, however you want to look at it.

But I would act as a sort of, because of my experience in kind of popular music, if you like, that I would try and kind of help bridge that gap between what was seen as disability arts and what was pop culture.

Because there aren’t enough, you know, you can say there are successful artists who are disabled, but it often kind of lives in its own world rather than becomes something that record labels and the official charts and everything else intersects with.

So, you know, I made that choice to be very specifically this, but it doesn’t mean that other management companies aren’t accessible or wouldn’t be open to working with this old art, as far from it.

I think those things are changing and they will be changing over the years.

I have anecdotal evidence from other people that they’ve been turned away from labels or been asked to not disclose disabilities for fear that it wouldn’t be great for marketing, or maybe we can hide this, maybe we can hide that.

I think those ideas are changing quite quickly.

You know, the missions are really sort of taking hold now.

And while I always say I think disability is very much at the back of the queue and in terms of that, we are getting there and there are some good things happening, which I’m sure we’ll talk about later.

So I say to other management companies, you know, to really look past disability, to see the talent behind the person.

And I guess just to realize people want to embrace difference now.

And like I say, the day is gone where it is a marketing faux pas to be different, you know, and not just in terms of representation, but just working accessibly with their clients as well.

It’s a real industry and everyone will have a better way of working that gets the most out of them.

So don’t put too much pressure on things like social media.

Let the artists have the time to breathe and be in that creative space and you’ll get the best out of them with the space to be creative.

I think access is talked about much wider now, not just about people who have disclosed disabilities, but obviously what is accessible for somebody with with mental health conditions or neurodivergent people, especially.

And you will find that artists are on that scale to some degree, quite likely.

In my own personal experience of working with artists, naturally, it seems there’s a lot of artists who do suffer.

And I think that it is important to take a step back now and again.

And instead of getting involved in the rap race of the music industry, to actually think about what is going to make this person enjoy this more, and what is going to help get the most out of them.

Because we know stories about burnout, and it happens all the time, all the time because of the pressures of the music industry.

And, you know, I think now mental well-being is becoming a lot more of a subject that we talk about and it is accepted and rightly so, obviously.

So I think we’re coming to a stage now where we can afford to not put the same pressures on artists.

And I think artists managers are starting to work more like that.

But especially if you’re working with someone with disclosed disabilities, mental health conditions, or divergent people, it’s just super important to talk to that person about what will help me get the most out of you and for you to be as happy as you can be.

Absolutely.

So we’re moving on to a few community questions here.

So people from Aussie that are probably here have asked these questions.

So the first question is from Asher Smith.

And he says, how do you pitch yourself to prospective artists?

It’s very, very rare.

As I said, we talked about the different ways you would start working with an artist.

It’s very rare you pitch yourself to an artist in a sort of way that requires much of a pitch.

Because I don’t think I’ve ever pitched myself to anybody I didn’t already know to some degree or have had conversations with far more casual than a pitch.

So you kind of get to know an artist.

Advice is power and people like to take advice if they can.

They can get it for free, they’ll do it.

So I often speak to artists quite regularly and start offering advice quite casually.

A very slow burner personally, when it comes to working with somebody.

Very rarely do I kind of put my neck on the line and say, hey, I really like your music.

What do you think about management?

I think it probably once or twice that I’ve done that.

But I’ve always kind of thought about that in a more casual way before making a more serious pitch.

And so I guess if I was though, if I’m to flip the question in that sense, I think I would just present the work that I’ve done in the past with artists and my ethos and beliefs in what managing an artist can be.

Always try and give some ideas of what you think you could achieve with an artist.

And be realistic.

Don’t over promise.

It’s nothing worse than over promising.

I think just be very genuine.

Show them what you’ve done before.

If you haven’t done a lot because you’re starting out, then I think one of the key things to mention when you’re approaching artists who maybe they’ve not had a manager before, and maybe you’ve not managed before, if that’s relevant to anyone in this group, is just to bear in mind that management is a…

You don’t win a thing if you don’t do well.

You’ll get 20 percent or whatever your arrangement is of the deals that you do.

So you earn your money.

You don’t just get paid, you’re not on a salary.

So really stress that we could work non-contractually.

No one’s going to lose anything.

You’re not going to pay me anything.

I’m not earning.

So it should be win-win for both parties.

But just think about what you can offer the party and what your vision is.

But as I say, the main thing, don’t over promise.

Yeah, I think that makes sense.

And so the next question was kind of pitched by Balooji Srivastava and also Sarah Mellor.

They’re kind of the similar questions.

So obviously we talked about different, obviously, like managers managing different genres and stuff.

So are you aware of any other kind of artist managers who are working with blind musicians that perhaps do different genres?

And the second part of that question was kind of from Sarah Mellor.

And she said, how do I find a manager who works in my genre?

Both good questions.

You know, other than myself, I don’t know people who specifically work or have worked with VI artists.

I know Stevie Wonder’s manager very, very loosely, but I think that’s more about the fact that, you know, he’s a world icon than just the fact that he’s blind.

It’s interesting you ask those two questions together, because they do go together, because managers will take on artists based on talent alone.

It’s not that, you know, you have to work with somebody like Harbourside to do that.

You know, we manage a very small selection of artists who we feel comfortable with the genre of, whereas, you know, there’ll be other management companies who will manage on the genre and not care whether somebody is disabled or not.

So on talent alone, people will manage you if they feel the music is the right fit.

There’s no one specifically who’s out there looking for VI artists as such, but that doesn’t mean that there aren’t people who would do it.

If I wasn’t on this call and you’re asking someone else, they’d probably say, get in touch with Harbourside.

But then it goes into the second question, how do I find a manager who does my genre?

Because I speak to a lot of artists and just because I do focus on disability, unfortunately, it doesn’t mean I can manage every artist and has to feel like I can actually add value to it.

And where it’s a genre I don’t understand, it’s not fair for me to say, yeah, I’ll jump on board and do that and get my paychecks.

Because if I don’t feel I can personally add value to it, then I wouldn’t jump on that.

But I suppose to look at it from the other end is, I don’t know any managers who won’t manage visually impaired artists.

So no one is ruled out.

You should look at all options and think more but on the lines of who is the right fit for me from a genre perspective, who’s worked with this kind of music before and who can enhance it and take it from that approach.

If you’re good enough, then it shouldn’t matter that you’re disabled.

It’s purely something that is alongside your music.

That’s my opinion.

Thanks.

So the final question is a bit different, and it’s from Eliza Rahman, and it was, can you support me in becoming a voiceover artist?

No, that is a different kind of manager.

Although you can do a lot of that yourself, and let me follow up with you about that because there is a, I forget the name of it, there’s a website you can sign up to and essentially have your portfolio as a voice.

There’s a few, there’s Voices, there’s, I think there’s voice.com.

Yeah.

Yeah, there’s a few.

Yeah, there’s none of the ones I was thinking of, that I’ve had experience of as being quite good, but I’ll check it out and have a look.

But yeah, you can do most of that yourself if you can just get a decent portfolio together or works that you’ve done before.

And that can be great.

I’ve worked with artists who do that alongside their musical work and it’s quite a nice little earner on the side, but you don’t really need a manager to do that as such.

You can do that yourself.

Awesome.

Just in the interest of time, I’m going to move us on a little bit, just we’ve got quite a few more questions to get through.

So I’m going to speed us onto the next section, which Sarah is going to lead.

So Sarah, do you want to jump in?

Okay.

So you sort of touched on earlier about your struggle with coming to terms with your visual impairment.

So I was kind of wondering if you had any tips on disclosing disability to people collaborating or to their employers.

Sure.

Yeah.

First and foremost, it’s a very personal choice.

And just because it was something that I’m glad that I did, it doesn’t mean that it’s the right thing to do for everybody.

I think that’s important.

Many people don’t have the option of disclosure, obviously.

But for me, it was a very slow burner.

It was something that I felt I would be discriminated against in my industry, in my job as a tour manager if I did speak about it.

I think I was probably right to think that.

I think that was correct.

I think I would have lost a lot of work.

So I kind of hid it and decided to just work and struggle more and more day by day.

While I was doing it, I’m not sure I really regret that in terms of the early years.

This was 2013 when it first happened, so just over 10 years now.

So I think when I did decide to do it, it was the right time and it felt right for me personally to do it then.

I felt like I’d become established enough in what I was doing to get work outside of touring.

And I felt like my management work was polished enough to start doing that full time.

So it was right for me.

I think about what’s right for you.

Remember you are protected on the equality acts and reasonable adjustments are completely normal part of society now and should be.

So feel confident in talking to your employer and expect a positive response.

I think don’t expect a negative response, expect a positive response and expect one that takes the weight off you a little bit and makes life easier for you and that employers will also see gets the best out of you.

I think having a dialogue and being open and honest is powerful.

And I’m sure if you’re working with the right people, you’ve got nothing to fear.

If you’re not working with the right people, then you have something to fear.

But that thing to fear is that you’re working with the wrong people.

Not necessarily about the other things.

So yeah, I would case by case, but you know, yeah, you’ll be good.

So really, it’s more of a what works for the individual.

It is.

It is.

I would, you know, I think positive disclosure stories are important, which is why I often talk about my own.

But there are negative disclosure stories that are in the system as well, and they have to be listened to as well.

It really depends what you do and how comfortable you feel working with the people you’re working with and whether you do feel that you’ll get the benefit of reasonable adjustments.

But you should always remind yourself that you’re entitled to reasonable adjustments.

You’re not asking for too much by asking for reasonable adjustments.

They are reasonable by name.

And, yeah, I’m always around if people want to talk more about disclosure because it’s been really heartwarming since I did talk about it myself and write blogs about it, to have people get in touch with me who’ve said that it’s given them the kind of inspiration to to talk about it themselves, and that means a lot, to be honest.

So, you know, if there was ever anybody out there who wanted to talk about that stuff, then my inbox is very much open.

Oh, that’s really nice to hear, because I think that’s still quite a big discussion to have, like, within the community, because, like you say, even though there’s a lot of positive disclosure, some people have difficult disclosures, and I think that kind of leads me on to this whole idea of, like, in recent years, we’ve started to introduce Access Riders, and I was just wondering, like, what your thoughts are on that and how we could really normalise the use of Access Riders?

Yeah, I’m a big fan, I’m a big advocate for Access Riders.

I think they should be essential for all artists, no matter where they are in terms of disability.

I think in terms of normalising them, as you put it, that’s what will normalise it, is if, you know, every artist, for those who might not know, so a rider would be your, what, an artist and their touring party put together when they’re touring so that a venue or a promoter or an agent knows exactly what to expect, how many people are coming, how many vegans are coming, what leads they’re putting in, where, what lights they’re bringing in, how many trucks they’re bringing and things like that.

So the idea of a rider is to advance ahead of the day, exactly what your needs are.

And the idea of an access rider is very much the same, but catered to an individual and what makes things accessible for them.

So the idea that even a large touring party, who might not have any people on there who identify as disabled should have a section dedicated to access is one that I advocate for quite a lot.

Because if you’re a venue manager or promoter and you see that on an access ride, it begins to be part of the normal conversation.

And part of my early experiences when I was working in tour management, and there was an access request come in, and I’d see eyes roll and hear tuts because people saw it as additional work for them.

I remember one manager saying once, I haven’t got time for this, and those words have always stuck with me.

Because it was clearly seen as an addition to their day-to-day job and not part of their job.

That struck a chord in me.

So if access riders can become normal, then access becomes easier for everybody.

It’s communicated ahead of the day.

It’s not unexpected.

It’s in advance.

It’s reasonable.

It’s a reasonable request.

People shouldn’t feel…

There’s so many stories about people feeling guilty about making access requests, and that’s born from the attitude of certain people.

A lot of accessibility is attitudinal and that’s important.

So if you can write down what you need on a PDF, make a Word document, plain text document, however you want to do it, that clearly describes what you need ahead of an event, or doesn’t even have to be, you know, you could be going to record in the studio, you could be a producer working in a new studio, you know, you still have access requirements, and to make an access write that you can send out ahead of the day can just be a very simple way of introducing your access needs.

Okay, so there’s a community question from Lynn Davies.

And it’s basically like, do you have any advice for live people that don’t have sighted support to create like a social media presence, or are there like any other ways of getting those opportunities that are like just as good?

Yeah, I think the question is born out of the kind of the fact that social media is so integral to an artist building a network these days.

And, you know, how do you do that if you don’t have sight is a really good question.

I guess this is where access to work could come in quite handy.

If you’re legally blind, you should be able to get that support.

But I think it’s a really good question that raises a big question about the accessibility of the industry as a whole, because it is such an important part of building your profile as an artist.

And it is hard to connect, especially with a non-disabled artist, without social media, because that is what a non-disabled artist will expect.

That’s what they’re accustomed to.

But obviously, there are more old school routes to publicity, such as contacting your local newspapers and radio stations and things like that, and sending out press releases and hiring a PR company.

Of course, they’re not free like social media, so that’s the additional barriers they’re faced in that situation.

But it’s a really good question and one that kind of highlights that there isn’t always an answer for everything with access yet.

But yeah, it’s a really good point, and one that I want to work on more generally in terms of what the networking opportunities look like for disabled people.

And you know, given that conferences are so inaccessible and things like that.

So yeah, it’s a good question.

There’s not a perfect answer for it, but I hope that helps.

So if you were to think back on your own career, so when you started out in radio and as a tour manager, and obviously facing that sight loss, like do you think that there’s any specific solutions that you could think of that could have helped?

Yeah.

In terms of my touring career, I really do think with someone with retinitis pigmentosa, which is predominantly a night vision issue, that to make that accessible to me, what a tour manager’s role involves is running from back of house to front of house amongst dark crowded rooms and packed rooms and working in tight spaces, working in dark spaces.

It’s difficult to say, well, that should have been accessible to me.

You know, it probably would have taken a lot more than reasonable adjustments for me to do that job, like a whole other person doing my job and me sat in a chair directing them.

Maybe that would have worked.

I don’t know.

I think if I’d stayed in a career in radio, I don’t think there’d be any access problems at all, you know, beyond travel to work.

I think I could very easily do that job.

I mean, I used to actually say, and this was before I had any issues in my eyesight, I was able to do that job with my eyes closed because I’d kind of been doing it so long and knew where all the buttons were on the desk and, you know, could maneuver that.

So I don’t think there was any issues there.

I think it was very specifically unlucky that what I was doing at that time, it really couldn’t be long-term accessible to me.

I did it for a long time while my eyes were still in the very early stages of changes.

But I can’t even walk outside to the bins now in the dark, you know, let alone work in a venue with 2,000 screaming people and be in charge for that entire room as well.

You know, it’s just not feasible.

Yeah.

Okay.

That’s really interesting to hear.

And thanks for answering, Max.

That sounds a little bit like, it sounds quite personal as well.

It’s okay.

Yeah.

So we’ve got another community question from Sophia Young.

And it’s kind of in two parts.

So the first one is like, what’s the best way to get music produced that’s more cost-effective?

And then is there any support as well for someone in that situation to get noticed?

So I think the most cost-effective way of producing music is obviously to do it yourself.

There’s nothing wrong with that.

I work with artists now on a very professional basis.

You have bedroom studios.

There’s absolutely nothing wrong with that.

You can get exceptional quality things done now.

It’s not cheap to get it all set up, but it’s certainly cheaper than paying whatever it is a day to go into a studio.

So consider that.

That’s not an amateur set up by any stretch to do that.

So what was the second part of the question, Sarah?

What’s the best way now for someone who’s just starting out to get noticed?

To get noticed?

Well, links in to the last question, playing the social media game, and is that an accessible way for a disabled artist is probably, the answer is probably no.

Getting some good demos is really important.

Get something that represents your work.

Think about your biography and your narrative and how you write that and how you tell your own story.

And think about the visual and the asset that go with your story.

What sells your story, what you send in to somebody.

Think about getting really good live footage.

If you’ve got the opportunity to play a gig and you think it’s gonna look great, then I would honestly say go to the expense of getting a video team to come in and film it and shoot something, because that video can be used to plug what you sound like live and what you look like live.

I think that’s really important to be able to pitch to agents and everything else.

Just think about getting the assets together that really sell what you are, because there’s only so many ways you can just describe your music to people, expect them to pick it up amongst the hundreds of other artists who are doing the same thing.

So, yeah, just think more and more about what gets you message across.

Okay, I’m just wondering then if there’s any follow up question to that.

Hi, yes, it’s Sophia here.

Hi, Ben.

Thanks so much for the talk.

It’s been great to listen in.

Just following up on that first answer that you gave about setting up stuff at home and getting yourself independently recording.

I am quite young.

I’m 16, was diagnosed when I was about eight years old with retinitis pigmentosa actually.

And yeah, I’ve always been very open about my disability, have always loved music and performing.

I’ve done a lot of songwriting in the last couple of years.

But it’s almost, yeah, how do I start recording and doing that sort of from an independent point of view as well, because I’ve never had the opportunity to be taught how to use that kind of technology before, or go about finding the right equipment that works for me.

So I was wondering whether you had any advice as to how I could start that off.

So I would say, think about funding as well, because there’s lots of funding bodies who would support you if that was giving you the platform to set yourself up to be able to thrive.

I think there’s things like Arts Council’s DYCP fund, which I say with a caveat, I’m not sure if it’s an 18 plus fund, that one in particular.

Maybe it is, maybe it isn’t.

But yeah, there are lots of money that will help you set up to do something like that.

If that involves learning and having the tuition to do that, I’m sure that could be included in that.

You can learn a lot online for how to use production equipment and the best equipment to buy.

I would lean on that as well.

But yeah, there’s lots of different ways.

I should say just because I know we’re short of time, if anybody has any questions or wants to reach out, Jay, I’m more than happy for you to share my email as well.

Depending on where you’re based, well, I mean, I’m in London and there’s an organization that I work with that does have a recording studio facility, and it’s open to young blind people, whether it’s for podcasts or for recording music or anything.

So if you want the details of that, I mean, we can talk about that more offline.

That sounds incredible, yeah.

I’d love to hear more about that.

Yeah, sure.

It is London based.

Yeah, that’s no problem.

I was also thinking about the Amber Trust, maybe for some funding.

Yes.

For some tuition so that you can get to grips with whatever audio workstation that you feel comfortable with, or you want someone to do some one-to-one work with you.

Because I know there are some tutorials and stuff that are online, but I do think there is some importance to having that connection in person with someone when you’re learning.

So yeah, maybe if you check out the Amber Trust, because they are for people under the age of 18, so you fit right in that.

Yeah, that sounds great.

I actually have heard of the Amber Trust.

I’m currently doing some music braille tuition with them.

Oh, great.

Yeah, which is really, really good.

Amazing.

And in terms of self-learning, it’d be great to hear, as someone who’s coming at this stuff afresh, check out the resources that are currently on the Sound Without Sight Knowledge Hub.

Because we’ve been doing our best to collate everything that does exist around the internet into one place.

So it’d be great to get your thoughts on what might be missing, what might not exist yet that we could potentially commission or create.

Nice one.

Yeah, I definitely want to check that out.

Amazing.

Amazing.

And just to wrap up that section, I guess, given that we’ve discussed some potential challenges throughout that, is there one key piece of advice you’d give to any aspiring visually impaired artists or industry professionals?

Yeah, just to keep at it, really, and be resilient.

Keep doing what you’re doing.

Have faith in what you’re doing.

I know there are access barriers, but things are changing and there’s more and more opportunities that are going to be emerging in the coming years.

Yeah, and on that, that leads really well onto the final two questions, really.

So what’s one great example of how the music industry has become more inclusive recently?

I think UK music do their annual diversity reports, although not quite annual, but the biannual.

We’re expecting the responses for this year, but we’re expecting an increase, so the representation is becoming better.

There’s some powerful work going on.

I can’t say too much about within the Brits Trust around disability.

It’s going to be quite a major piece of work.

Obviously, Attitude Is Everything is doing some great work as well.

And I just think in general access has been more into arts bodies now.

There’s some really positive things happening.

So there’s no finish line, but progress is being made, and we should feel pretty good about that.

That’s really positive.

Thank you very much.

And I guess apart from Sound Without Sight, can you think of any initiatives that our attendees might want to get involved with right now that are supporting the development of disabled artists?

I think Attitude Is Everything’s next stage is worth looking at and getting in touch with.

That’s a really great initiative, which is helping development of artists.

Please keep an eye on my socials as well, because I’m expecting to announce some projects later this year, subject to funding that will support a number of people.

So yeah, just to flag that, not as a cheap sell to follow me or anything, but yeah, just keep an eye out because I can’t say anything right now, but there will be some announcements throughout the year.

Amazing.

That’s really, really good to hear.

So we’ve got one raised hand from Balooji.

Hello, my name is Balooji Srivastava, and I’m the director of Innervision Orchestra, which is about lots of VA musicians.

And they are very good musicians.

Linda is the manager of Innervision Orchestra.

And I have myself, last year I played 14 concerts, different kinds of music, including Innervision.

And now I’ve got 14, 15 concert more to go.

And so I’m playing lots of concerts, and we are all playing together.

If anybody wants to get in touch with us, please get in touch with baloojimusicfoundation.org.

I will definitely follow where your gigs are, and I’d still would love to come and see you play Balooji.

Thank you very much.

Thank you very much, Balooji.

One final question to wrap us up from Kevin.

Hi, Ben.

Thank you so much for the presentation.

Really, really great stuff.

I was just quickly looking at your website, and I was seeing that you launched the Disability Empowerment Programme with Youth Music back in 2022.

And I was just really interested to hear a little bit more about that and what kind of work you guys are doing.

So that was a project that gave one artist the chance to come on board to release an EP project, but also it gave one disabled intern the chance to come and have the first taste of the music industry for six months to work with me and help run the programme.

And it was really successful.

We got it signed.

The music went and was released by Virgin Music.

And the record was great.

It got picked up some really key radio plays.

But what I’m planning next is kind of 10 times bigger than that.

And I probably shouldn’t say too much.

But the idea is that we replicate that.

But on the level that helps more artists and gives more artists opportunities and not just opportunities in terms of releasing music, but learning and networking opportunities.

We’re partnering with Universal Music, YouTube, TikTok and all these other major organizations to look at how we can give accessible learning to disabled musicians and artists.

So watch this space for news on that.

We’re really hoping to get that passed through.

But that was a project we did with Youth Music that we’re trying to use as the pilot to a much bigger project that helps more artists.

So yeah, it was a very exciting time.

But yeah, we’re stepping up on that massively hopefully this year.

It’s pretty really good to hear.

A very quick follow up question.

I mean, from a kind of music journalism point of view, like what stories do you think music journalists need to be looking at when trying to change the game for disabled artists?

You know, what kind of things do you think aren’t being talked about enough?

It’s a really good question because I obviously haven’t managed disabled artists for years.

It’s kind of very common for us to get interviews, but then the first question kind of amounts to, so what happened to you?

You know, it’s very kind of tragedy focused rather than empowering.

And I think just to think about that, if you are a journalist yourself, Kevin?

Yeah, I work in radio, yeah, BBC.

Right.

So yeah, just in any form of terms, really to think about it from a perspective of that person.

And, you know, do they want to be asked the same questions they’ve been asked a million times in every interview?

Probably not.

And to think about the person first and that, you know, how much that person wants to talk about their disability is up to them and that it shouldn’t necessarily be the lead question, but just to focus on the empowerment of the individual and let them decide how much they want to tell you about the disability or what happened or how it influences their work or how it inspires them, I guess.

But I think that’s a brilliant question, because it drives me crazy whenever my artists do interviews and that’s kind of the direction it goes in.

Yeah.

Yeah.

People don’t see beyond the disability and you just like talk about the music.

Well, they think that’s the focus of the article, but it’s not, it’s just so dumb.

If you want to find out things like that, you can usually Google them if you want to know about an artist and they’ve probably spoken about it a million times anyway already.

Well, Ben, thank you so much for your time this evening.

I know we’ve gone on a bit longer than we said, so thank you very much for that.

And also for your offer of receiving a few emails as well, because I know there were a few questions we didn’t get to ask.

Yeah, and some that I did, I went super quick because I was conscious of time.

So I’m like, I pride myself on always wanting to have a community with disabled artists and producer, and I work in the music industry.

So I’m always open to having a dialogue and advising where I can.

I’m always up for a quick Zoom and a coffee or whatever, and to get to know the community a bit more.

That’s a very, very kind offer, and thank you very much.

If you’d like to reach out to Ben, his email address is ben at harboursidemgmt.com.

Thank you for listening to this episode of the Sound Without Sight podcast.

Sound Without Sight is a community-driven online knowledge hub, collating information and resources to support blind and partially sighted musicians and audio engineers to break down access barriers.

If you’re a visually impaired musician or audio engineer, why not share some solutions you’ve found on our knowledge hub?

You can learn more and get involved at soundwithoutsight.org.

If you’ve enjoyed listening to this podcast, please consider making a donation to support the project.

You can do so at soundwithoutsight.org/donate.

The music you’re listening to was kindly contributed by community member Mackie Jones of maplemixproductions.com.